No Luck

fredjordan · Post by **fredjordan** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:23 pm

So about 2 weeks ago I changed my line and leader because I had a nice musky break me off. I have spent about 28hrs on the water since and havent caught a thing. I spooled 2 of them with 100pb braided and 2 of my poles with 80lb braided. All of them I have added 100lb leaders. These leaders are my concern they are straight wire and have no flex what so ever. Are the fish seeing these leaders and avoiding?

Are these leaders disrupting the action of the baits? What does everyone use as their set up when it comes to line and leader?

Jim tenHaaf · Post by **Jim tenHaaf** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:22 pm

I use 80lb braid with 130lb flouro leaders for bucktails, and ~150lb wire leaders for rubber & cranks. Don't worry about the fish seeing them. They won't care. If they don't care about eating a lure a foot away from a boat, a thin leader won't scare them off. Summer can be a tough time of year. Actually, 28 hours in the past 2 weeks sounds like a lot of time of the water considering the temps we've been having... Please be careful. Many members have stopped muskie fishing altogether. A dead fish is not worth the 60 seconds of adrenaline rush in my book. Even with all the precautions taken, it's still very easy for a fish to go belly up in mid-80's temps. As my avatar says "RESPECT THE MUSKIE!!".

Steve S · Post by **Steve S** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:30 pm

I agree with Jim, I use 110lb line & 150lb wire leaders, they don't care. I haven't fished the month of July cause of water temp and might not fish August. I usually fish Hudson which is stained and that lake has got to be smoking hot. It's not worth killing a fish!

Corey K · Post by **Corey K** » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:55 pm

Flouro leaders 130 and 150 are great for straight baits, and 200lb single strand for everything else.

fredjordan · Post by **fredjordan** » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:33 pm

The waters I have been fishing have been about 78 to 79. Is that to hot? If I killed a fish it would destroy me, so at what temp should I not chance it?

Jim tenHaaf · Post by **Jim tenHaaf** » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:53 pm

fredjordan wrote:The waters I have been fishing have been about 78 to 79. Is that to hot? If I killed a fish it would destroy me, so at what temp should I not chance it?

Usually, the magic number is over 80*. And that's if it's that warm at least a few feet down as well. So.... where can we find this cooler water?

Post by **Will Schultz** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:27 am

fredjordan wrote:The waters I have been fishing have been about 78 to 79. Is that to hot? If I killed a fish it would destroy me, so at what temp should I not chance it?

This is that time of year when people should consider checking their graph temp compared to a decent stream thermometer. Last weekend while bass/walleye fishing. I had my graph in the bow giving me 81-84 degree readings and a console graph that showed 77-80. If I go by the console it doesn't sound too bad but if I go by the bow the water is hot. Acording to my stream thermometer one graph is a little high and one is a little low. Bottom line is that we have water right now that can be lethal when a muskie is caught and released. Simply putting a number on the "magic temp" isn't possible because too hot is relative. If you fight and release them quickly with only an in the water photo or five second out of the water photo (whole C&R process under two minutes) then 78-82 may be OK. See this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FHyVsyMBeM

If it takes a more than a minute to bring the fish to net, two minutes to unhook the fish, then the fish is out of the water for a minute for photos the odds of that fish not living through the stress of the C&R process increases significantly. Some will swim away only to die later, others aren't going to survive the catch and release process. It is the sad truth about fishing for muskies when the water is over 75 degrees all the way to the thermocline or bottom.

detroithardcore · Post by **detroithardcore** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:51 am

Will,

What are your thoughts on the torpedo release that is done by many of the LSC trollers/charters? When dealing with high surface temps do you find this technique to work good for getting the fish down to cooler water? It seems like a violent/brutal release but some guys out on LSC swear by it... I know with the bigger charter boats it's sometimes easier for them but it still seems like a pretty hard release. I've never done it nor felt the need to release any fish that way. Thoughts??

Post by **Will Schultz** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:44 pm

On the big boats they have to do the best they can w/ the high sides. The torpedo seems to work for them but if I can hold their tail and let them go when ready I'm not going to be using that method.

Kingfisher · Post by **Kingfisher** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:54 am

The torpedo release has a new twist these days. Years ago big boats just torpedoed them back in after pics. Today its different. Most if not all of the big boats now carry the fish tank airated live well. This revives the fish before the torpedo release. Letting them breath water with high oxygen content gets them ready to go back. We kept Michelles 55 in the tank for half an hour before it went back. Then the Captain swam with her to make sure she went down on her own. Even on St. Clair we have to watch out for hot water. The entire east end is too hot to fish right now with temps over 80. Areas in front of the st. Clair river are the coolest and most of the boats are working those cooler waters. In my boat we use both methods as sometimes when we get small ones that are not photographed we just net them, unhook and push them down nose first and they go back down right now. If pics are going to be taken we stop the boat and let the boards stall. Or drift down wind if we can. We can always fix tangled lines cant fix a dead fish. Its much easier to hold the tail when the boat is not moving as we do in all casting fish and all boat rod trolling fish. When Planer boards are out and you have multiple lines this puts the boat captain in a decision making mode as to whether or not he stops the boat. We dont stop for small fish as they never come into the boat. There are exceptions as in fish that are badly hooked and those small ones go into my 48 inch airated live well as we continue.

In short the torpedo release should only be used if you cant stop the boat and in most cases you CAN stop the boat. Rick watched us stop the boat for a 44 inch fish and tangle up 5 lines. If I had a 60 inch livewell with the long top as in the FISH TANK wells I would just go right from the net to the well picture to the torpedo release. We will have a 24.5 foot cabin cruiser on St. Clair next season. My first purchase will be a 60 inch Fish tank Live well. Mike

detroithardcore · Post by **detroithardcore** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:56 pm

Yeah surface temps all around LSC are 75+ and was climbing this week. There's still areas that can be fished but you have to be very careful and act fast with a fish.
I'm familar with the "FISHThANKS" and seems like a great idea for those big boats. My livewell has been working great but any fish over or close to 50" is a tight fit. I don't troll but have already put a few legal fish in my livewell after being deeply hooked. It works great for letting a fish recoop. I have no need or reason to torpedo a fish since I'm low to the water but I'll push there heads down as far as I can to get them moving. I was just curious because you see or hear about it out there from time to time.

swanezy · Post by **swanezy** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:51 pm

The thing that im curious about is are the livewells in the charter boats on st clair the same temp as the surface temp? If not i would imagine a huge shock on a fish putting it back into a warm surface temp after sitting in a cool tank

Scott Williams · Post by **Scott Williams** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:20 pm

swanezy wrote:The thing that im curious about is are the livewells in the charter boats on st clair the same temp as the surface temp? If not i would imagine a huge shock on a fish putting it back into a warm surface temp after sitting in a cool tank

I could be wrong but I believe the increase in oxygen is the big reason these tanks are so effective. Even if a little on the warm end.

Post by **Will Schultz** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:46 pm

Scott Williams wrote:
swanezy wrote:The thing that im curious about is are the livewells in the charter boats on st clair the same temp as the surface temp? If not i would imagine a huge shock on a fish putting it back into a warm surface temp after sitting in a cool tank
I could be wrong but I believe the increase in oxygen is the big reason these tanks are so effective. Even if a little on the warm end.

The Fish Thanks are usually using water from the boat washdown pump which draws surface water.

ricky sox wrangler · Post by **ricky sox wrangler** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:06 pm

Kingfisher showed me a modified version of the torpedo release. After reviving next to the boat until the fish shows that it's just about ready, push the head down towards the bottom and launch with the tail holding hand while never taking the fish out of the water. Watch the fish swim away happily ever after!