Budd Lake

adamminnick · Post by **adamminnick** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:29 am

I was hoping for some local overspraying his dock weeds. Not this and not here.

gmochty · Post by **gmochty** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:33 am

this is bad news!!!

Its going to be in ALL lakes soon!! :x :x
One would think it would be in the TITT chain first??
The DNR took a some pike from Sanford this spring for testing for VHS.
Did anybody hear what the results were?

gmochty · Post by **gmochty** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:35 am

This sucks, what next??

gmochty · Post by **gmochty** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:38 am

That makes me sick!!

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:49 pm

I sure hope something is posted soon at the boat launch, or perhaps it can be barricaded? I've tried calling the Bay City DNR office all morning, but no response.

gmochty · Post by **gmochty** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:15 pm

Just a matter of time an EVERY lake will have this!!!!!

Kingfisher · Post by **Kingfisher** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:32 pm

I am hoping that the die off is over. 30 muskies in that lake is probably near 1/3 to half of the Muskies living there. It looks like one of the big girls is dead. This is worse then I ever imagined it could get on such a small lake. It will take 20 years to replace that 50 inch sweet heart. I expect we will be seeing more of the same as the years go on until it hits them all. I wish there were a weaker form of it they could put in the lakes like an innoculation to prevent it. We are probably years away from such a cure. I hope we are not seeing the future of all our work being trashed by a stinking disease.Mike and Michelle

finlander · Post by **finlander** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:05 am

So is it time to write the obit for all waters connected to the Great Lakes, or has it shown that not all fish succumb to this?

finlander · Post by **finlander** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:20 pm

Does this mean all connecting waters of the Great Lakes are history, or, are some fish not as succeptable to this thing?? Looking at walleye in Erie for example. Seems to still be strong, right??

Post by **Will Schultz** » Mon May 21, 2007 10:11 am

Sometimes you just know... Since I got the first e-mail or PM from Jason about what he saw on Budd I knew what the result was going to be but just hoped that they would find something else. When all the DEQ tests came back negative in my mind they didn't even need to finish the testing... this was going to be VHSv.

This is just the start. St Clair saw two spring kills, a mild one then the big one last year. We can only hope we don't see the same with the inland lakes.

Post by **Will Schultz** » Mon May 21, 2007 10:41 am

finlander wrote:So is it time to write the obit for all waters connected to the Great Lakes, or has it shown that not all fish succumb to this?

This isn't a connected water. Only time will tell what will happen to the inland lakes, it will be interesting to see if Budd has another kill this fall and next spring when the disease becomes active again in the cooler water.

VHSv was most likely spread to Budd in one or two ways:
- from a boat that went from infected water like St Clair to Budd
- from live bait collected in infected water

It's no surprise that the first inland lake is a small water. This could take a couple years before we see this start on the bigger water.

Stopping traffic on Budd isn't going to make a difference at this point. I don't think anyone suspected a lake like Budd to be the first. Now that Budd has it, it is likely any lake with a public launch and/or any lake where live bait is used has VHSv already. It will just take time for the disease to spread and to start killing fish.

Kingfisher · Post by **Kingfisher** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:18 pm

There are so many guys that fish St. Clair from all over the Mid west its scary. Guys from New york and Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana. Bringing thier boats back to thier home waters. water trapped inside of trailors and or live wells would be the most likely culprits. We used our Starcraft in St Clair and also in Murray and Thornapple. It was cleaned out inbetween trips but did we get it all???? I asked linda at the banquet how resiliant the virus is and she says its pretty weak. I also wonder about puddle jumping ducks and geese. We started the year out by deciding to only use our big boat in Lake Michigan and our small boat in inland lakes but this wont stop any transfer if this evil virus is in any one of the lakes we fish. One suggestion I have is for every one to (NOT) fish more than one lake in the same day even if the lake has not had a kill. If the virus as weak as Linda says than giving your boat a couple days to dry out will kill any tag alongs. Flush out your Live wells with bleach and water mix solution then fresh water and run your airrater with the bleach. As far as live bait goes we get ours from a fish farm in Muskegon and his fish are free from any disease. I would not use bait shop fish in any of our Musky lakes at this point but who is to say some pike fisherman with minnows or crappie fisherman with minnows wont? Most bait shop minnows are trapped and held in ponds. This could be a real stinker in the spreading of this disease. My thoughts have been on a vaccination type of a cure. Im hoping they could develope a weaker form of VHS and introduce this into the lakes like an innoculation. Fish would build thier immune systems up by defeating the weaker form and then be able to resist the Vhs. Probably just wishfull thinking on my part. Any way Michelle and I will do our part to not spread anything with our boats and only fish one lake per day. Mike and Michelle

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:34 pm

Tragic stuff…a matter of when, not if at this point I suppose. Just heard from a biologist that Sanford is also VHS positive. No fish die off, but tested fish from this spring (pike) did have the virus. We can only hope that the eventual musky mortality is say 1%, or 10%, not 90%. The dead muskies that tested positive in Budd also had several other diseases, and it was thought that this was a major factor in the significant die off there. It was also noted that the Budd muskies did not show obvious hemorrhaging, which led the collectiing biologist and testing pathologist to believe that it wasn't VHS initially.

I believe this past Saturday was the pike tourney on Sanford...that's over a hundred visiting livewells filled with infected fish. Too bad news didn't get out in time to cancel the event. As mentioned by the biologist though, it is likely a moot point since the livebait vector is significantly more direct. As Will mentioned, there are probably many, many other inland lakes that are currently positive, but Sanford was one of the first sampled this spring and it typically takes 6-10 weeks for the pathology tests.

Post by **Cyberlunge** » Mon May 21, 2007 8:33 pm

This is a bad thing but better now before the program is really cranking. It is better to have some losses now and regroup later. It is likely that due to our mobile society that it is literally everywhere.....however as a Biologist I feel the need to point out a few things.

1.) Fish have shown a relatively low susceptibility to this disease 10 or even 25 % is awesome. If it were higher there would be complete kills in small lakes.

2.) As noted the kills have shown that many of the fish are weak and have other issues. Rememeber the flu and SARS epidemics, only the weak and very young were affected.

3.) The fish that live are the ones that are immune, they then will pass that immunity to their offspring creating what is known as "herd immunity" which means at some point there will be to few presenting individuals to continue the disease.

4.) Viruses are not alive and do not "think" they are pre-programmed chunks of DNA or RNA that reside in a capsule that "injects" the payload into a cell or host bacteria. If they are not in their ideal environment (PH, Temp, salinity) they will not activate.

5.) When a small population of fish continually interbreed there is the possibilty of genetic drift which allows unfavorable allelic combinations to proliferate in the population becasue there are no other options. This means the virus may only affect individuals with certain genetic combinations.

So what I am saying is, yes this is bad, but.....dont write off the entire Esox population just yet. There seems to be less effect in the E. Luscius population which may mean there is a way to outsmart this thing.

I believe at this point it is more critical than ever for the members of this organization to continue educating the public and reduce the stress on the current adult populations of fish. When humans are "run down" they may get a cold (virus) fish are no different.

If you are a person who doesnt speak up for fear of the consequences consider educating everyone you can because the future of the fishery rest not only on the hands of the DNR and Federal Biologist and epidemiologist, but in the hands of the conservationists, like us, who must take the information to the people.

Kevin

finlander · Post by **finlander** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:33 pm

I have only fished Muskegon Lake and Lake Michigan this year. I have carpeted bunks, 4, on my trailer. How might I clean those? And do they suggest we remove the boat from the trailer to let it dry? I'd love to let it sit in the sun and bake it dry for a few hours. Like Mike says, using one boat here, and another for waters shown to have VHS. Seems like it wont be as severe on a larger body of water. I want to go fish Murray but I may skip inland lakes for quite awhile. :?

Michigan Muskie Alliance

Budd Lake

Hopefully wishing

VHS

Budd

Re: VHS

Other states

VHS