Green Bay - Muskie fishing: Is the big one big enough?

Topics concerning muskellunge and fisheries research, diseases, stocking and management.
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Hamilton Reef
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Green Bay - Muskie fishing: Is the big one big enough?

Post by Hamilton Reef » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:34 pm

Green Bay - Muskie fishing: Is the big one big enough?

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/app ... 90746/1233

12/09/07 By Jim Lee Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers 715-845-0605 jlee77@earthlink.net

The surprisingly rapid resurgence of Great Lakes spotted muskie in the waters of Green Bay and the lower Fox River has spawned muskie fishing fever along with muskie fishing fears.

Aspects of both will be discussed at a special public meeting set for 1 p.m. Saturday, Dec. 29, at the Green Bay Yacht Club, located at the mouth of the Fox River adjacent to the public boat ramp.

Jeff Tilkens, a Green Bay resident and part-owner of Roberts Outdoors Inc. (manufacturer of Joe Bucher Lures), arranged for the session, which will consider the future of muskie fishing on the bay and steps necessary to preserve and enhance those possibilities.

"This is absolutely developing into a world-class muskie fishery attracting muskie anglers from all over," said Pete Maina, a former Hayward-area muskie fishing guide who hosts televised fishing shows and will be a featured speaker at the forum.

The large size of the bay, coupled with an extensive forage base, has enabled muskie to reach impressive size faster than their inland counterparts.

"This area compares to Georgian Bay in Canada" for its ability to produce huge fish, Maina said.

A muskie caught by an angler in the bay or river must be at least 50 inches long before it may be kept. Numerous fish exceeding that minimum have been taken in the past year, leading Maina and other veteran muskie fishermen to call for a boost in the size limit to 54 inches.

"Lots of 50-inch fish are being killed," Maina said. "A handful of people are causing a lot of damage. A 50-inch muskie from Green Bay is only 10 (or) 11 years old."

No one knows the number of 50-plus-inch muskies in the bay, the number of those fish caught or the number kept. Rumors of a single angler keeping several legal fish in a year has sparked indignation among many in the muskie-angling fraternity and is feeding the groundswell to raise the minimum size.

"I'm open to a 54-inch minimum," said David Rowe, Department of Natural Resources fisheries biologist at Green Bay and the person responsible for managing the spotted muskie fishery, "but I just want more biological information before making any decision."

Rowe said it is unknown how long Green Bay muskies will live and the reasonable length to which they will grow. The fishery was initiated with stocking in 1989, and any remnants from that effort are 18 years old. Muskie have been known to survive 25 years under optimal conditions. However, the oldest muskie the DNR has examined is a 12-year-old, 50½-inch fish.

As a publicly funded state agency, Rowe said, the DNR must ask whether its role should be developing a recreational fishery where an angler can make the decision to keep or release a 50-inch muskie — the fish of a lifetime for many — or restrict the harvest further to encourage a higher trophy standard.

Dr. Tom Betka, a Green Bay physician and muskie angler with an undergraduate degree in aquatic biology, believes a moratorium should be placed on muskie harvest until the potential impact of viral hemmorhagic septicemia is known.

The foreign-based disease, which can be fatal to a wide variety of fish species, has been found in Lake Michigan and the Lake Winnebago system. Muskie populations in Michigan's Lake St. Clair and New York's St. Lawrence River have been affected by VHS.

"If VHS hits southern Green Bay and the Fox River during the spring when muskies spawn, it's going to kill a lot of fish," Betka contends. "If we eliminate harvest, it's going to allow more muskies to survive the virus."

The survivors, he said, are likely to be fish whose genetic makeup allows them to withstand the disease. Those fish will be critical to the future of the muskie fishery.

Rowe said information is needed on the value of older muskies to natural spawning success and the possibility aging may increase susceptibility to diseases like VHS.

Betka said he supports a 54-inch minimum limit, would like to see funds designated for research into the bay's muskie population and increased education of muskie anglers on the need for catch-and-release fishing. He will make a presentation at the Dec. 29 session.

Anglers in 26 counties voted on a resolution at the 2007 spring fish and game hearings calling for a 54-inch muskie size limit on the Green Bay fishery. Though supported in 25 of those counties, the measure failed to win endorsement from the Great Lakes Committee of the Wisconsin Conservation Congress.

The issue is not on the 2008 spring hearing ballot, and no muskie size limit changes on the bay fishery are planned for the upcoming season.

Maina is hoping the meeting will raise public awareness and "rally the troops" in support of immediate action.

A typical 50-inch bay muskie weighs about 34 to 38 pounds. "A 54-inch muskie would most likely weigh 45 (to) 50 pounds," Maina said. The state record muskie — which has become a source of controversy — is listed by the National Freshwater Fishing Hall of Fame in Hayward as a 69-pound, 11-ounce fish.

As for muskie fishing aspirations, "I absolutely believe the waters of Green Bay can produce muskie of record-book potential," Maina said.

"In fact, I think the Wisconsin record muskie has already been caught and released here ... but then I believe the Wisconsin record is a mid-50-pound fish."

Steve Horton
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Post by Steve Horton » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:55 am

Great article and alot of truth there too. I don't particularly agree that it is on the same level as Georgian Bay (YET) but it is a great place to fish. Technically, the Michigan state record has been broken as well (unofficially) due to the Wisconsin's stocking efforts but we won't go there...................

Hamilton Reef
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Post by Hamilton Reef » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:54 am

WI - Sizing up the muskie debate
Some call for tighter rules; opponents say that's 'ridiculous'

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/app ... 70486/1233

12/27/07 By Kevin Naze Press-Gazette correspondent

Wisconsin's state fish, the muskellunge, was known as the legendary fish of 10,000 casts.

In the past decade or so, state Department of Natural Resources fisheries officials estimate, it's been more like the fish of 3,000 casts.

Three thousand, that is, unless you're fishing the Fox River.

Drop in some minnow-imitators, attach trolling boards and hit it right, and you might do battle with more than one muskie in a trip. Some pros have bragged about catching up to 10 in one outing.

The success and the size of the Fox's surging spotted muskie fishery has caught the attention of serious anglers nationwide. The increased fishing pressure and the unknowns over viral hemorrhagic septicemia — the VHS virus — have some Muskies Inc. members calling for special regulations to protect the largest spawners.

A meeting to discuss a larger minimum size limit and other issues specific to the local fishery will be held at 1 p.m. Saturday at the Green Bay Yacht Club.

In April, a resolution to increase the minimum size limit for muskies on Green Bay and the lower Fox River to 54 inches passed 67-15 in Brown County and in all but one of more than two dozen counties where it was introduced. The measure, however, did not advance past the Great Lakes Committee of the Wisconsin Conservation Congress and is not on the spring hearing ballot.

Jay Zahn, president of Titletown Muskies Inc., introduced the resolution in Brown County last year. He said 54 inches was chosen because Canada has a 54-inch minimum on Canadian-controlled Great Lakes waters.

According to online chatter on several state fishing boards, Zahn's resolution claim that an "alarming number" of 50-inch muskellunge were harvested from Green Bay waters in 2006 is shared by plenty of others, but not everyone.

Marc Charles, a Green Bay taxidermist, said the best anyone can do is speculate on how many legal-size muskies have been caught and kept in recent years.

Charles said since he'd gotten only one legal-size muskie in his studio this year, he called many others in his profession in Northeastern Wisconsin. Not one, he said, had a spotted muskie.

"It would be ridiculous to think they are all being taken out of this area after being caught," Charles said. "This leads me to believe that they are not being removed in the numbers being touted."

Zahn said a 54-inch minimum allows for a trophy to be harvested while insuring fast-growing Green Bay muskies have more than just a season or two to spawn. It also might better reveal the area's potential.

"If you see how much weight is on the fish here at a 50-inch level, it's amazing," Zahn said. "If they're given a chance to grow, I think they can prove that Green Bay can put out a world-record fish."

Charles said the DNR estimates almost 50,000 muskies were caught and kept statewide 50 years ago, compared to fewer than 2,000 in recent years.

"There's more muskies now than there ever were, but there's less being taken," Charles said. "It's a sport within a sport. Those guys are already practicing catch-and-release. I bet if you asked for a raise of hands by attendants (at Saturday's meeting) that have kept a muskie from the Fox River or Green Bay, you may not even get a single one."

Others are debating whether trolling is the problem. At minimum, some say, the number of lines allowed in the Fox River should be reduced. Others wonder about the delayed mortality from handling and releasing big muskies.

"We've got to get the word out on how to properly handle these huge fish," Zahn said.

Charles said a February 1996 issue of Muskie magazine, the official publication of Muskies Inc., has an article on muskie size limits with a quote by muskie expert and former DNR fisheries employee Art Oehmcke defining quality muskie fishing:

"He said it was 'a complete muskie fishing experience for the greatest number of licensed anglers, not the goal of size limits so high and varied that they can only be reached regularly by seasoned, professional muskie hunters,'" Charles said. "I think that says it all."

Tim Simonson, a DNR fisheries biologist who co-chairs the agency's muskie team, said Muskies Inc. members reported catching more than 60 fish 48 inches and greater statewide in 2006, up from the average over the past decade of about 29 fish topping that length.

The state and world record is a 69-pound, 11-ounce muskie taken from the Chippewa Flowage. Wisconsin holds the world-record hybrid muskie: 51 pounds, 3 ounces from Lac Vieux Desert.

A 54-pound, 10-ounce muskie from the Lower Fox River was thought to be the largest taken statewide in 2006.

Hamilton Reef
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Post by Hamilton Reef » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:24 pm

WI - Lake Michigan Fisheries Team
September 18, 2007
Wisconsin Training Room
Lakeshore Technical College
Cleveland, WI

http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/lakemich/Lake%20 ... -18-07.pdf

Review resolutions to be considered by the Great Lakes Study Committee

Background.
The GLSC will consider the four resolutions listed here with local hearing votes:
1) Change the minimum length limit for muskies north of Waldo Boulevard from 50 to 54 inches (Barron
County, 20 yes, 6 no).

Action.
The Team reviewed the resolutions and developed the following observations to be passed on
the to the GLSC:
1) Muskies. This regulation would be atypical and therefore contribute to regulation
complexity. Our biologist, Kevin Kapucinski, speculated that the rapid early growth of these muskies
might contribute to early mortality, reducing the chances of attaining the target size of 54 inches. The
rule as drafted includes the Menominee River, where it would be problematic because that is a boundary
water.

Hamilton Reef
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Post by Hamilton Reef » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:21 pm

Anglers offer lengthy muskie request
Biologist: 54-inch rule not needed; angler handling more critical

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/app ... 30644/1233

03/23/08 By Jim Lee Gannett Wisconsin Media jlee77@earthlink.net

Expanding the potential of a world-class, trophy muskie fishery in the lower Fox River and Green Bay will depend more on angler conduct than a 54-inch size limit, a Department of Natural Resources biologist contends.

"The proper handling of hooked muskies will do more for the muskie population in the bay than anything else," said David Rowe, DNR fisheries biologist at Green Bay.

"We feel current regulations are protecting muskies. The population is safe. If anglers want a 54-inch minimum size, that is their preference. But there is no biological reason for it."

Rowe is a member of a DNR muskie management team that met recently to discuss a request by some muskie anglers to raise the minimum size on angler-caught muskies in the Green Bay system from 50 inches to 54 inches.

Bay muskies grow at a fast pace, and trophy anglers fear too many fish are being harvested at 50 inches, not allowing those muskies to reach their full potential, which some believe could approach world-record proportions of nearly 70 pounds.

The DNR began a restoration stocking of so-called Great Lakes or spotted muskies in bay waters about two decades ago. Only in recent years has the availability of those stocked fish reached numbers attractive to the general muskie fishing populace.

"We don't really know much about these muskies," Rowe admits.

There has been little evidence of natural spawning success. He's hopeful future studies will shed light on the fish's life cycle, including migration patterns and spawning preferences.

In the meantime, anglers have been increasingly attracted to this emerging fishery, which offers the opportunity to boat the muskie of a lifetime, even if it may not reach legal "keeper" size.

"Our indications are the average female muskie reaches maximum length at 53½ inches," Rowe said. "Some will get bigger, some will be smaller.

"If the minimum size is set at 54 inches, about 60 percent of the females and 95 percent of the males will never get large enough to harvest."

It takes eight to 14 years for a bay muskie to attain 50 inches, with the average about 13 to 14 years, he said.

"We have had muskies reach the 50-inch mark as early as seven years, but the quicker they grow early in life, the more likely they are to die younger," he said. "Fish that grow slower tend to live longer and get bigger."

There is no way of knowing the extent of angler harvest because most information is anecdotal.

"Through our creel census work (in which anglers are interviewed on the water), we estimate 1,600 muskies were caught and released on Green Bay last year," Rowe said.

Many of these fish were in the 40- to 53-inch range. A muskie at the top end might approach 50 pounds, he said, a weight few muskie anglers have handled.

"There are a lot of muskies out there, and they are growing fast," Rowe said.

"I know of more 50-inch muskies that were caught and released last year than were kept."

Hooking mortality is estimated to claim 5 percent to 30 percent of all released muskies, he added.

"There is a need for anglers to learn how to safely release fish, and there is a great deal of difference in handling a 30-inch fish and a 50-inch fish," he said.

Anglers fishing Green Bay muskies should be prepared and have equipment appropriate to safely handle large muskies, he said.

A sturdy, wide, 3-foot-diameter (or larger) landing net is needed to engulf and hold fish in the water until hooks can be removed, according to Rowe. A cutting pliers is necessary to snip hooks if the lure is deeply embedded, a fairly common situation. Hooks are easy to replace on the split rings of most muskie lures.

If photos are taken, anglers should not lift the fish out of water until the camera operator is ready, then the muskie should be lifted by holding the head in the slot just forward of the gill plates with one hand while cradling the body in the opposite arm. The gills should not be touched.

"It's important not to stress the spinal column," Rowe said, "and to return the muskie to the water as quickly as possible. A safe guideline is to release the fish within 20 to 30 seconds."

Fox River and Green Bay anglers are asked to report sightings of any dead muskies this spring to Rowe at (920) 662-5480 and provide the specific location.

Some muskies are lost every winter to a variety of causes, but with viral hemorrhagic disease being detected in some Lake Michigan and Lake Winnebago fish, the DNR wants to closely monitor the situation, he said.

"We don't want people to handle the dead fish or bring it in themselves," Rowe said.

"We will come out and get it."

If a cluster of dead fish of any species is seen, that also should be brought to the DNR's attention, he added.

Anglers who keep a legal muskie from the bay or river are asked to collect the cleithrum bone (located immediately behind the gill covers) and provide it to Rowe for a muskie aging study. Taxidermists also have been alerted.

"The cleithrum is the only valid method for assessing the age of old, slow-growing trophy muskies," he said. "Fish should not be harvested for the data, but every fish harvested should be used to provide the data."

The information will provide valuable age and growth data that can be used for future management of the muskie fishery.

Hamilton Reef
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Post by Hamilton Reef » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:37 am

Versatile lower Green Bay fishery booming with opportunity

The virus can be fatal to a wide variety of fish species but is not a threat to people. No one knows what impact VHS will have, but early results from dead fish testing have been favorable.

"We didn't find any significant amount of muskie mortality this spring," Rowe said. "In fact, we found fewer dead muskies than in past years. We tested two fish this spring, a muskie and a walleye. Both tested negative for VHS. We're waiting on test results from another muskie, a lake sturgeon and also a carp that we submitted."

Rowe said the bay muskie population appears stable, though it is difficult to assess. Almost all that is known of the fishery derives from spring nets set in the Fox River below the De Pere dam. Efforts to locate muskie concentrations at other potential spawning locations have been largely unsuccessful.

"We captured 90 muskies in the Fox River this spring," Rowe said. "A tag is put on each fish. Based on recapture formula, we came up with a population estimate of 1,740 muskies."

That figure is less than previous years, but statistically remains within the same parameters, he said, adding this year's lower results may be attributed to unusually clear water during the netting period, enabling muskie to avoid being trapped.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/app ... 80652/1233

Hamilton Reef
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Post by Hamilton Reef » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:27 pm

There is an error statement with the last sentence and note what I highlighted in bold. Yes the GLS future is looking much better!


Discovery of natural reproduction may change bay musky stocking

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/articl ... 1608/WDH02

01/11/09 By Jim Lee • Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers

GREEN BAY -- Indications the Great Lakes strain of spotted muskies have successfully spawned in Green Bay have been detected by the Department of Natural Resources, a discovery that could impact future musky stocking locations, said David Rowe, DNR fisheries biologist.

Biologists and musky anglers have been looking for signs of natural reproduction ever since the DNR began marking and stocking spotted muskies in the lower Fox River and the bay in 1989.
There have been spring musky movements into likely spawning areas and unconfirmed reports of unmarked small muskies observed by anglers, but this is the first time DNR crews have obtained potential physical evidence.

"In August, we were seining in the lower Menominee River, where anglers had reported seeing musky spawning activity, and we netted an unmarked fingerling musky," Rowe said. "In October, we returned, recaptured the same fish and another unmarked fingerling musky.

"We are not yet certain they are spotted musky. There's a possibility they are river muskies that hatched upstream (above the Hattie Street Dam at Marinette). We have submitted samples of the fish for genetic testing to determine if they are spotted musky."

Much of the early musky stocking took place near the mouth of the Fox River and lower bay. While those fish have flourished and continue to spend considerable time in the area, there has been no detectable spawning success.

"The lower Menominee River is an area we believe can support natural reproduction of spotted musky," Rowe said. "It doesn't have the sediment problems of the Fox River. It has better vegetation and a better substrate for successful musky spawning."

Shallows in the Little Sturgeon Bay area provide likely spawning habitat along the Door County shoreline, Rowe said, and he continues to check the west bay shore near the Peshtigo, Oconto, Pensaukee and Suamico river mouths.

Musky angler interest in the Green Bay spotted musky program has grown nationwide as catches of 20- to 40-pound fish have become common. The spotted musky is a native of the Great Lakes but had disappeared from the bay in the 20th century until stocking revived the fishery.

Upon reintroduction, musky have found food plentiful in the fertile bay and enjoy excellent growth rates. A 50-inch minimum size limit was put into effect by DNR, but dedicated musky anglers -- many believing the waters are capable of yielding a 70-pound world-record musky -- are seeking a 54-inch minimum.

Jay Zahn, president of the Packerland Chapter of Muskies Inc., said a coalition of local musky clubs have asked that the size increase question be placed on the ballot at the DNR's annual spring hearings.

Aside from preventing the harvest of muskies less than 54 inches, Zahn believes the higher size restriction enhances spawning success because larger fish tend to carry more eggs. With the discovery of viral hemorrhagic disease in Lake Michigan waters, it is important for the bay's low-level musky population to retain as many fish as possible, he added.

"It took a long time to get the musky fishery back to where it is now," he said. "It's special. We ought to take precautions."

Rowe maintains there is no biological reason for a 54-inch size limit -- that the average bay musky reaches maximum size at 50 inches -- "but if that's what the fishermen want, I will support it."

About 10 percent of bay muskies will eventually top 55 inches, Rowe estimates. "I think it's possible there's a world-record fish out there ... even with a 50-inch minimum size limit," he said.

"If you go to a 54-inch size limit ... does that increase the possibility? I don't think so."

To enhance genetic variability, Rowe expects to stock 1,200 fingerling spotted muskies from Georgian Bay, Ontario, into three central Wisconsin lakes this winter. They will be protected from harvest and allowed to grow as brood stock for future stocking in the bay. Those fish -- certified disease-free -- were obtained through Fleming College in Ontario in a project funded by the Packerland Chapter of Muskies Inc.

Brood stock for the original spotted musky stocking effort came from southeastern Lake Huron in the Detroit River area of Michigan.

Steve Horton
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Post by Steve Horton » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:34 am

Whoooo hhoooooo!!! Finally, this is great news. However, we've been seeing unclipped, unmarked fish for years. The limited efforts of the WDNR to locate naturalized fish just weren't enough to uncover the truth. Muskies were NEVER extirpated from the bay, but survived in small numbers that were caught by quiet, humble anglers who didn't need to brag to have a good time fishing. They were also washing down from the Wisconsin strain stocked rivers into the big lake, for years before the restoration efforts began. But, even though he seems to be leaning away from the "dark side", I can't understand Rowe's comment about the 54" resolution not helping fish grow larger. Its simple math, Mr. Rowe, even a biologist can understand. Here it goes......NO RESOLUTION SCENARIO 51" fish = kept fish = dead fish. 54" RESOLUTION SCENARIO = 51" fish = released fish = fish grows to 55" and 50-60 lbs. One other note.......it is true that some of the original brood stock came from LSC but most ORIGINAL, viable gametes came from a small number of adults from the Indian River/Burt lake.

drdanks
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Whoooo hhoooooo!!!

Post by drdanks » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:16 am

Steve, I agree with everything you said. It's simple math that even a Brady Hall quiet wing freshman can understand. Dewey

Steve Horton
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Post by Steve Horton » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:37 am

OMG. Dewey you little devil..............as you probably remember math was never my strong point. Hope life has treated you good roommate! I'll PM you..............

Hamilton Reef
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Post by Hamilton Reef » Sun May 17, 2009 10:24 pm

Green Bay, Fox River offer spring muskie alternative

To improve future genetics of the Great Lakes strain of muskies currently in Green Bay, the DNR and Muskies Inc. obtained 1,100 fingerlings in April from Georgian Bay on Lake Huron in Ontario, Canada. They were released in Anderson and Archibald lakes in Oconto County and Big Elkhart Lake in Sheboygan County. When adults, the fish will provide spawn for eggs to be hatched and raised by the DNR for stocking in Green Bay.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/art ... lternative

Steve Horton
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Post by Steve Horton » Mon May 18, 2009 8:18 am

Thanks for that piece Hamilton Reef. Good read. Hopefully, with some thought, the right moves, and some common ground between local governments, local individuals who care about the economy as well as the resource, the MDNR and the WDNR, some of these fish can make it to holding ponds and then the Michigan waters of Green Bay sometime in the near future. I intend to make it one of my long term goals to help in any way I can to make this dream a reality.

Hamilton Reef
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Post by Hamilton Reef » Mon May 18, 2009 12:25 pm

Titletown has a annual three day (Fri-Sat-Sun) GLS muskie tournament in the middle of October. I've always thought that would be a good time for a trip to GB to learn the area fishery and socialize with muskie cohorts to the west. Is there any interest for such a trip?

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dlw681
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Fox River Underwater Camera

Post by dlw681 » Tue May 19, 2009 12:44 pm

Check out the underwater camera..Very cool I have seen many Fish swimming bye!!!
http://cdn1.ustream.tv/swf/4/viewer.111 ... rnish=true
let'em go to grow

Dale

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